roll'n scissors question

[Ardy123]

I've noticed 'two' types of roll'n scissors execution. It appears that version 2 preserved more e but is sometimes more dangerous by version 1.

1) the plane pulls up so that his nose is at a vertical angle greater than 90 (degrees) and then he does a very slight roll and continues to pull back on the stick, very much like a loop.

2) the plane pulls up so that the nose is perfectly vertical then it does a roll + right rudder, then the pilot pulls back on the stick. The roll over at the top is similar to what is done in a cuban-8 maneuver.

Which one is 'correct'?
When someone does version 1, how do you prevent the overshoot? every time this happens I get clobbered.

[Krupnski]

I don't use either of these and they both look like instant death maneuvers...

[Ardy123]

I don't use either of these and they both look like instant death maneuvers...

What do you do instead?

[zzee]

either or neither could be a good maneuver based on what the other guy is doing. sometimes ya gotta just flow with the fight and leave the text book at home(i lost my book)

ardy,

the first one you described almost sounds like a double immellman gone bad, unless i'm misreading it.

oink

[Krupnski]

What do you do instead?

I hold my nose up untill I think the other guy flys by then I do a simple aileron roll causing my plane to stall and flip around.

[Ardy123]

I hold my nose up untill I think the other guy flys by then I do a simple aileron roll causing my plane to stall and flip around.

Ok that was Item 2, the only thing was using the rudder to quicken the roll.

[JunkyII]

I think Krup might agree with me here but 2 sounds more like he is trying to get into vertical scissors(alot of 109s like this fight better because of the climb rate. Zzee is right about leaving the text book home in some ways. One thing you have to do is make the fight into the one you want to fight. What I mean by this is notice people trying to pull you into other things. If you want to rolling scissors make sure you dont pull directly towards the planes tail. This may sound alittle contradicting but in Rolling Scissors you want to get into your opponets flight path and follow him. You do this by using tactics to make you not move forward as much. One thing I do at the top of My roll is pull my stick back the way I was moving from. I also like to get my plane going to the 3 and 9 o clock positions of the fihgt, what I mean by this is 12 oclock is the way the fight is moving 3 and 9 would be to the left and right. The difference between vertical scissors and rolling scissors is the fact that shots come more often on vertical scissors via snapshot. In that fight you dont want to aim behind your about 2 plane lengths like in rolling scissors but aim at your opponents six directly

BTW Ardy Im back so Ill be on alot and we can work on this in the DA

[Krupnski]

I think Krup might agree with me here but 2 sounds more like he is trying to get into vertical scissors(alot of 109s like this fight better because of the climb rate. Zzee is right about leaving the text book home in some ways. One thing you have to do is make the fight into the one you want to fight. What I mean by this is notice people trying to pull you into other things. If you want to rolling scissors make sure you dont pull directly towards the planes tail. This may sound alittle contradicting but in Rolling Scissors you want to get into your opponets flight path and follow him. You do this by using tactics to make you not move forward as much. One thing I do at the top of My roll is pull my stick back the way I was moving from. I also like to get my plane going to the 3 and 9 o clock positions of the fihgt, what I mean by this is 12 oclock is the way the fight is moving 3 and 9 would be to the left and right. The difference between vertical scissors and rolling scissors is the fact that shots come more often on vertical scissors via snapshot. In that fight you dont want to aim behind your about 2 plane lengths like in rolling scissors but aim at your opponents six directly

BTW Ardy Im back so Ill be on alot and we can work on this in the DA

We think alike..